Written by Mathew Naismith
I would first like to mention that the following discussion
wasn’t altogether friendly, sadly enough, but it did bring forth a few views
that I think should be noted.
This discussion is about power and control but it’s also
about how two different perspectives can come up with two totally different answers,
how we live is certainly all to do with the way we perceive. Now a lot of us are becoming spiritually aware,
we are using different perspectives, instead of just using a human perspective
we are now also using a spiritual perceptive, this at times can give us opposing
views to others and even ourselves, I think
we all need to be aware of this. Another thing I think we need to be aware of
is, the more aware we become the more we are changing, this can make it quite difficult
in relating to others who aren’t changing. Try to be patient with these people who are
obviously finding it hard to change, we must remember, we are the one’s
changing and they are the ones who are truly having a hard time of it with the
changes and with us changing.
Mathew - again we will, I
suppose, have to agree to disagree. You make many judgments about power. I
understand your disagreement with how many use it; but that does not make power
itself evil. I understand that you do not like control; however, as Sunil also
stated power and control are different things. By your standards the Divine is
evil and wrong and controlling - which I do not find to be true; this being
because the divine is powerful - by what you are saying then the Divine is
controlling and evil because of being powerful. Seeking power is also different
than being powerful - most that are seeking power are also not actually seeking
power, but they are seeking control. You mention Hitler - he was not powerful;
but he was very controlling. He was controlling because he was not powerful.
The same with the Middle East - as a matter of fact where we see control there
is not power; but the opposite a sense of being powerless. By your definition
then I would say most spiritual teachings are also wrong? Repeatedly we find
the Divine and Spiritual teachings ask us to stand in true power of the Divine
and be powerful Divine beings - be as the Divine which is powerful. However,
they also mention that we are not to seek power for the sake of controlling
others. Here again it is not the power but the control that would be sought;
which again control comes from where people are powerless.
You also mention about
chaos not being spiritual; and yet that is exactly how the universe was
created, out of chaos. Chaos does have many aspects to it that you associate
with power; however, it is different from power. The divine does not see all of
these things as "right" or "wrong" but each with it's own
value. This is also how I choose to see things. Yes, there are people that use them
for things that are not pleasant; but that does not make the particular thing
that way. I have not changed things around to "fit" anything.
Sunil - thank you for
re-stating my point and expanding on it, that these are different things.
G'day Jesse
I'm not sure why you
are putting words in my mouth; I didn't say power was just plain evil. In
regards to judging power, I don't have to judge, it's a clear observation that
power can be extremely destructive, and as I also said, it can be constructive,
power is very ambiguous, for me too ambiguous to be used in conjunction with
spirituality, there was no mention of evil.
So I'm saying, within
your own personal perception, that the divine has to be evil, again were did I
mention that power is plain evil, please point it out. You are using the word
evil way too much; I think you better look within and not externally.
Why does the divine
have to be powerful or empowered? In a human sense this consciousness is
powerful but in a spiritualist sense it's not, the reason for this is simple,
once you begin to perceive in a spiritual sense as well, all notions of power
and control no longer come into thought, this is due to becoming aware that you
are one with the divine rather than being humanly separate to the divine.
The biggest problem
between you and I is, you seem to be looking at power in a human sense and I’m
looking at power in a spiritual sense. Of cause the human self will perceive
that a higher consciousness is all powerful, the reason for this is that humans
keep themselves separated from this higher self by thinking this exact way, all
other higher consciousness has to be all powerful when in fact we are all a
part of that higher self. Because humans find it hard to perceive they are of
this divineness, a lower form of consciousness, they perceive this divineness
has to be all powerful only because this divine consciousness is more aware.
Can you see how it’s only a perception that we are not of this divine nature
and by thinking this way we are keeping ourselves ignorant and permanently in
chaos?
Jesus never wanted to
be idolized, you know why? He saw no separation between himself and the rest of
the people of the world, what was in him was also in all of us, he wanted us to
stop idolising and see ourselves in our true nature, the divine nature.
Idolising any power in any higher consciousness is going to keep us right where
we are, ignorant to our true nature and in chaos. How many people who have been
all about power and control created even more chaos? Jesus was obviously not
about power but about oneness, about the oneness of the divine in all of us.
Yes the universe was
created out of chaos but it wasn’t just destructive within this chaos was it?
It is quite clear you
don’t want to see where I am coming from, I can see where you are coming from
but it is obvious you don’t want to see where I am coming from.
One more thing, I also
could use other people on here to prove my point but what would be the point
unless I wanted to give the ego even more control over my truer self, seriously
think on what you have written here!! Don’t worry, I still at times react in
the exact same way which of course only creates even more chaos in our lives.
Peace Jesse…..
PS In a human sense
power and control are different things but in a spiritual sense there not,
there is no separation of anything within the divine, this is why the divine
consciousness doesn't judge. You are humanly separating everything which in a
human perspective is quite normal; this is why humans judge so much, they are
into separation not oneness with the divine.
There is quite a big difference between a human perspective
and a spiritual perspective, the spiritual perspective can’t see power within
itself or anything else because it sees no separation but humans do, this is
the human perspective which I think keeps us from our connectedness to the
divine within. We are indeed going to go through some rough times while
becoming spiritually aware, the main reason for this is we are mixing the human
perspective with the spiritual perspective, this can be quite daunting to us
but it can be even more daunting for others around us, I think this is worth
being aware of. Becoming aware of the
differences between humans perspectives and spiritual perspectives will help with
the process of becoming spiritually aware I believe, it’s really all to do with
becoming awareness itself and this to the human self is quite daunting. Just be caring and patient with the human self
and all will be fine in the long run.
